Joint Attacks

We have tried the joint attacks and although it seems more convenient there are still some downfalls. Like for example your army launches straight away with the longest thus requiring more food and the snail time for faster armies also becomes way longer. When sending small armies to neighbours this wouldn't be really a problem, but for big attacks on experienced enemies it might be better to do the old way.

It's great that joint attacks will be simplified from now on. But it still could be improved. Right now in multiplayer attacks the faster armies are slowed down to match the time. This results in:

a) a lot of food wasted (and I mean A LOT) - if one player is heavy with siege and needs matching infantry / cavalry for protection this would slow down the cavalry to the speed of siege (3 times?) That will require 3x as much food then normal. For short paths it's no problem, for longer ones it would sometimes mean that more food be required than a player can spend at once. => that player will still have to launch matching time manually

b) the snails turn on much (MUCH) earlier. If that player with cavalry would launch manually (army marching at their normal speed) the time needed to cover the distance from the awarness border to target is a few times shorter than if they go at the speed of siege. I checked this today: a knight send not matching time had 11 min of snail, one that matched cats - 36 min! That's a huge difference. The reinforcements are sent to match whatever comes, so if the defenders know so early about all the forces coming in they gain a huge advantage.

Both of these, but especially the second point makes this update only usefull for not worrying about a few second difference, etc. The players will still need to launch at about the time they would manually, only not so precisely. We hoped the joint attacks would simplify cross time-zone attacks but as they are now - no way :( It's really crucial for attackers to be online at the right moment - while from the defenders side 1 or 2 commanders are enough to send in reins. This update didn't solve this problem.

I think it would be much better if the matching was done by sending the army later, not slowing it down. Said army (after pressing send) would be grayed out for all other movements (similarly as if they were in shelter) - so unavailable for other actions (including defense). But to be able to recall (which is possible when sending manually) in the send / move units screen the player / commader could click on a grayed unit and get a pop up similar to what is with loading units on rafts (with additional info on where this unit is planned to go to attack). There she could chose to recall that unit from the planned attack or recall all army from the planned attack. From that moment on this unit would be available to send as reins, defend or to go to a location, etc. Of course, food should be used when planning the send (so it gets wasted if you recall, just like it is now).

Yes, of course, but in your towns the food is produced - so as long as your production is not negative, the army will get enough food. To launch you need all this food at once. That is a HUGE difference.

And players that can not hold the amount needed will not be able to use this untill they have large storages. Snails at a much further distance also ruins the science awareness balance. This would be great if armies did not slow down and just launched when it's time.

And players that can not hold the amount needed will not be able to use this untill they have large storages.

The later you launch, the less food is required, you can always launch later.

Doesn't the defeat the purpose of the one touch coordination feature?  If I am understanding Ubique, in theory, if two armies are launched of the same composition and size, the army that is closer will need the same amount of food for travel as the one farther away because the closer army is slowed down to match the arrival time of the farther army.  Longer march as you say, means more food. 

Launching later is a solution but can this feature be used to do that (haven't tried it yet) or do you have to go back to the manual coordination method to launch later?

So excited about this eagerly awaited addition to the game. I expect that their will be a lot of testing of this in then ext few day. While I have not had the chance to test it myself yet, I have read what my fellow alliance members have said about it. And I have a few thoughts.

I agree with you, Bers,  on the point about the food. It is the same amount, just up front. In some situations it will be a problem; such as in a newborn town, with limited storage. And that is something that the player will have to think through. Inconvenient, but workable. 

The increased marching time, is a bit of a problem. If I am on here playing, it is very boring without my hero/army. Forces me to do nothing but puzzles for a prolonged period of time. Not to mention the time that my army/hero is not available for defense/reinforce/fishing/digging and monster fighting.

I have great concerns for the increased snail times. Every second that we are in awareness, increases our risks. And increasing it is something I would go to great lengths to avoid.

I do see this feature as helpful; even as is, if a player must leave the game prior to his departure time. No more having Methos to remove his pants in order to match time. (Embarrassed to admit that.)

Overall, a great addition to the game, just in need of a little tweaking. Thanks team for all the hard work.

Much better solution wouldve been, if selected army can match the time to target but there is still some waiting period, not to launch it immidately with possibly much higher travel time and food (+oil) cost, but instead deducting food (+oil) needed to launch 'normally', and  'lock' those units til their launch is due under normal conditions and set them on road once the time has arrived. Cancelling attack before actual launch could unlock selected troops, but all (or half perhaps) of the launch cost would be lost.

Food is not wasted at all, if you will launch them later, they will still stay in your town eating up food, versus launching earlier, they will take more upfront but will not eat in the town. The total is the same.

I don't think this is 100% accurate.  If your hero goes with your units, you lose any hero related perks of having your hero stay in town, such as the food producing perks, as well as army upkeep artifacts he may be wearing.

In some situations it will be a problem; such as in a newborn town, with limited storage. And that is something that the player will have to think through.

What is the point launching an attack  from a newborn town? You won't have enough storage for a regular attack launch anyway, this has nothingto do with delayed or joint ones.

You can launch from a lower developed town, double time means double resources. We are only trying to explain that it takes too much in resources and that increased snails makes it that much easier for a defender making the awareness much further then the science techs allows. It's a good concept, I just see attacks being launched manually for the majority still.

The increased marching time, is a bit of a problem. If I am on here playing, it is very boring without my hero/army. Forces me to do nothing but puzzles for a prolonged period of time. Not to mention the time that my army/hero is not available for defense/reinforce/fishing/digging and monster fighting.

When you're online using the units, it means you're there to launch later, so this is not a problem.

But I found another huge disadvantage to slowing the armies down - the return time. It is the same as the going in time (yes, with the snail time added for whatever reason). So if, say, your army gets slowed down to match - and the difference is big (not talking here about 5-10min) for example 2hr instead of 1hr - they will also be returning for those 2hr. Forget about going in again :( With the recovery update added, being able to launch successive waves of attacks is crucial - using this matching makes it impossible. Unless the goal is to make attacks only successful when you take a whole town out in one go...

Of course it is the same. People also don't have a reason to take mortages - they should always pay upfront, because in the end the total is the same.

Spending food upfront IS worse, especially if this feature were used to launch before logging off - when you usually need bigger amounts of res to start longer upgrades. Starting them before such prolonged march would mean you could lack the food to send, and vice versa. It doesn't matter that while you're offline the amount produced would be bigger.

IMO there are lots of downfalls here, including our prolonged travel time and longer snail time. IMO Bers is not concerned about prolonged snails giving the added advantage to the person attacked, he probably welcomes it. The news post reads something similar to "inexperienced players can do the same thing that the experienced players/alliances are doing"
IMO that does not mean we "experienced attackers" should not just continue to do it the way we always have (unless a circumstance prevents it) since there remains so many advantages to doing so.

to me both types of attacks should work the same way, why should the faster army in a multiple player attack leave at the same time and be slowed down? Why can they not just leave later when it is their time to go?

okay, time to put my two cents in.  The big ones wont like it.  Too bad.

the requirements to change things on the attack times are way too big for one game company to do.  Bers would have to have at least 15 servers and a ton of code to do what you want him to do.  Not going to happen.  At least he gave you a choice for those times you cant be online.  Be happy with it.

The amount of code and computers needed for what you want, he can't do.  Not unless you want to invest in the company.  You need to remember this is an alpha, not a beta and not a full release.

When it gets to full release the computer power needed to do your suggestion of computing when to release players on a joint attack is the same as asking the country to do a full assault, coordinated.  No one has that many computers to coordinate that.  Give him a break.

I may not be playing now but that is for many reasons.  If Bers wants to know why he can email me.  I do however keep up on the forum.  Not always signing in, but I want to see where this game is going.

I may come back but not now.  Good luck all, enjoy and give Bers a break, he is trying to tweak things to suit everyone.  When you do that, not all are happy with it, but it does have to be balanced or you end up with no players.