Culture and expanding

Seems you read nothing in the thread here. Every culture of a town counts just for this town. your border will grow in every direction of your town so if will be nearly a circle (it can't be a real circle because we play on a map with squares ;) )

For example if you have more than 40 culture you will have a domain of size 9, this will be your town and 1 square in every direction you also could say a square of 3x3 cells, next step would be 1 square more in northeast, southeast, southwest and northwest. If you have a town with culture of more than 108 so your domain is a suqare of 5x5, next step would be 1 square more in northeast, southeast, southwest and northwest. Next step would be beside this last square again 2 in northeast, southeast, southwest and northwest. and so on. If you have more towns, so every town counts for hisself, and the circles will overlap. If you have a neighbour near you its logical you both can't have the maximum possible domain because you can't share cells for every kingdom.

You don't understand the creation of your domain and thats the only reason why you criticize this thread.

After the question of Mandy (first posting of this thraed) i tried to explain it (2nd posting of this thread) and then i tried to find out the culture level for 1 town (3th posting of this thread).

And because of this fact that culture is just related in the cells around the town and not your whole kindom it is inpossible to have a single town with 198 culture, without a pushing neighbour and a  domain of 43. Such a town should have 45 Cells.

For example so:
__XXXXX__
_XXXXXXX_
_XXXXXXX_
_XXXOXXX_
_XXXXXXX_
_XXXXXXX_
__XXXXX__

Because we have a diagonal map you must turn this 45°.

If you have 2 towns with additional culture it is another case, if you have a near neighbour so your domain is naturally smaller as the maximum size. We said nowhere something other but you said we should change here something because of your experience. If you have a screenshot with your domain of 43cells without influence of some near neighbours so feel free to post this screen and maybe we can come to a solution at this discussion wich turns in a sad bad way of accentuations.

0 = 1 cell

> 5 = 5 Cells

> 40 = 9 Cells

> 55 = 13 cells

> 90 = 21 cells

> 108 = 25 cells

> 125 = 29 cells

> 160 = 37 cells

> 195 = 45 cell

> 215 = 49 cells

> 250 = 57 cells

> 270 = 61 cells

> 305 = 69 cells

My culture is 112 and I only have 18 squares.  I really don't understand the whole square per culture stuff or why there is such a hola baloo about it, as long as I can expand that's all I care about. 

Here you see some influence of near towns. The circles show you the influence of the culture based on the towns. The big black circle around "Dwelling of Knutistgut" show you all cells wich will be inside my domain without looking at other towns around.
The small black circle show you the influence of the culture of "Knuthood". As you see both cricle overlap and real  domain is less than the maximum additional of both towns. If "Knuthood" grow so i just got some cells in north because in south the influence overlap with my other town. Same with my Maintown wich would just give me some more cells in south and west.

The red circle show us another case. This is the influence of another player based on his culture. At the area where my black circle and the red circle overlap the influence is calculated in culture and distance of all towns. Thats the reason why some of the cells count to my kingdom and some of the cells counts to the kingdom of Balor.

 The numbers are true in the beginning, but after the first few levels, they are wrong.

The numbers are not wrong, but once you have neighbors, you compete for the same space. The numbers would be accurate for a world without anyone close enough to oppose your borders.

The numbers ARE wrong for the real situation as it exists. Period. I am able to expand in three directions and I have far LESS domain than these numbers indicate.

You should have learn until now that ''period'' after a sentence doesn't count as an argument. 

It is the second time when you are rude when I was just trying to help you. My mistake, it won't happen again. 

And for future references, applicable in real life, if people are ignoring you it doesn't mean that you are right, but that nobody is going to waste time and energy to even speak with someone so self sufficient. 

Knut, she is having 43 squares(minus 2 the actual towns) because she is counting the second town. She is one of the lucky people on the edge, from what I can see, she can expand freely in two directions. 

Your explanation about town creation and expansion logic is very good. 

As the developers said not once, I think the point of this second alpha is competition. That's why the small space, to see how we interact with each other. Fight or alliance? How do we choose to solve the space problem?

You should have learn until now that ''period'' after a sentence doesn't count as an argument. 

It is the second time when you are rude when I was just trying to help you. My mistake, it won't happen again. 

And for future references, applicable in real life, if people are ignoring you it doesn't mean that you are right, but that nobody is going to waste time and energy to even speak with someone so self sufficient. 

Easy for you to say, since the rules don't seem to apply to you, as your domain just keeps expanding away even moving my domain out of the way! If I could expand in the direction away from you there would be no problem as I would just keep expanding. But, that does not happen for me. I would LOVE it if my domain would just expand in that direction. But it does NOT. Instead, it just expands less. You keep growing and overtaking and I am stuck. I tried to provide more data and was attacked.

And for future reference, I have no interest in anything you say because everything that comes out of your mouth has been rude, condescending, and disrespectful. And pointing out that something I say does not make an argument is all fine and well, if I was trying to use it as an argument, but I was not. English is my native tongue and since it is clearly not yours I will do a little PSA (public service announcement). People say "period" to make the point that they are tired of having to repeat something ad infinitum. Maybe it is because you cannot speak the language well that the things you say come across as rude and obnoxious and perhaps it is because you cannot understand it well that you think everything I say is also rude. Frankly, I don't care. I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt once, but now I am done with it and am willing to sink to your level of rudeness. Don't talk to me. I don't have any desire to play your petty little games. I did not come to this game to socialize with petty tyrants. I came here to play the non-pvp style that is promised in the description and instead I find a battlefield of whiners who seem to get everything their way and can't understand that it is less fun for those of us who do not. I get attacked for pointing out that it is NOT working the way the forums seem to indicate it should. So, please, by all means, do not bother "helping" me again. I have no use for  your brand of "help."

Sorry but i felt the same as vivia, i must say english isn't my homelanguage (im sure you know this because of my bad grammar) but this thread had a very bad taste for me.

I still waiting for a screenshot and another problem is you just read half of a sentence, ignore all other things somebody said in the context and at least you believe we just offer wrong informations and telling lies. And this all packaged in a very agressive way of speaking.

I think the game needs to be fixed, first of all, and if it is to stay as it is, the "hints and tips" thread needs to reflect the REALITY of the game, NOT the perfect situation, never going to happen for most of the players.

I'm happy to update the thread with more accurate numbers. I've been trying to pay attention to them myself to make sure they are accurate. However, I'm relying mostly on Knutisgut's numbers. If they're wrong, please update me with the right ones. I am currently too busy to do the calculations myself from scratch.

Actually, I did read this thread. I also posted in the tips thread and another player told me it was off topic there. It seems that my input is not wanted??? If you look at the tips thread, which you responded to once (because, yes, I read it) you will notice that I said I was trying to give input to improve the data, not to criticize.

I haven't been paying attention properly to my own tips thread. I did yesterday move all discussion posts to its own thread just to keep it less confusing for those who want just the tips. Input is wanted, and I'm sorry if I haven't replied to any messages you left there; I am in the middle of trying to drag a 6-month project to the finish line, with 6 weeks being overdue and maybe 1-2 days work left to do. My mind is focused on that, not this. Leave input in the discussion of tips thread, and I'll get back to it as soon as I can. -- By the way, I will add clarification as you suggest that the culture is influenced by neighbours too. It's a work in progress and I understand and apologise if you were confused by my edits. The thread isn't really there for set-in-stone answers, but mostly as a way to help new players without clogging up the chat with obvious spoilers and repetitious discussion.

You keep growing and overtaking and I am stuck. I tried to provide more data and was attacked.

To be fair, everyone is having that problem. Which is why most of the players are inventing several heroes to play with.

By the way, everyone is trying to figure out how the culture works. Knutisgut's figures are what I rely on because no one knew how the expansion worked outside of Enkord; he's the only player who worked it out to a sufficient extent. The numbers need refining, especially as in Alpha 1 testing they kept changing the amount of culture required. This is the first time in testing where the amount of culture has been stable enough to calculate it reasonably.

I came here to play the non-pvp style that is promised in the description [snip]

You know what, so did I. Which is why I started a discussion thread about single player mode. It would be useful if you posted your concerns there, because I am thinking that Enkord would like to hear what you have to say from the perspective of a person who is frustrated with the multiplayer aspect.

In general and outside of that: please let's not start a fight over this. We're all learning how the game works as the game is being tweaked. Things are not set in stone and may change according to Enkord's game development. It's not worth the energy.

3. Town need a domain of 92 cells (less 3 per additional settler)

Can somebody confirm please

Thank you, Buckwheat, for that very thoughtful answer. I really appreciate it. Unfortunately, I posted the numbers in the tip thread as I got them, but I did not write them down. Perhaps my posts still exist somewhere? Otherwise, I have no way to reproduce them without starting all over. I will post new ones as I get them. Thank you again.

You're welcome. Although I have to admit to being overly polite, for I read the other posts, as well as the bug report, and am keeping myself in check. I did not like your comments and if you hadn't been warned by Berserker I would have done so myself. Having said that, count this as a warning for everyone: abusive behaviour shouldn't, and won't, be tolerated.

As for the posts about the numbers, I did not see them in the tip thread but perhaps you posted them somewhere else? If so, let me know and I will look for them there.

Please explain this "taking cells." Why am I BLOCKED by other players' domains, but they can TAKE my cells? Why can I not expand in the direction that has no blockage.

Forgive me for assuming, but...

I suspect this is a misunderstanding of how the game works. It is not designed as 'single player' (see my comments on single player thread for more detail) like TT1. It's not designed for discrete playing by yourself with little levels and you just do your own thing. You're not being 'blocked' or punished, or attacked by players taking up space in your area on the world map.

The first issue is this: players have many different goals. In TT1, the goal of the level is to beat the enemy (ie. against the computer) and to complete each puzzle or whatnot in order to move to the next stage. In this game however, the goals are less finite: you can battle each other, complete quests, expand, trade, and so on. It's open-ended. In your situation, what is happening is not that you are being 'blocked' or cells 'taken', but that you are both competing for the same resources on a world map. In other words, these cells do not belong to anyone, but are there for anyone to possess if they get there first. TT1 has no other players to compete with, you're just playing against a computer enemy, and even then they didn't have resources that you could possess or take.

You may wish to expand as a goal in TT2; in which case you need to learn the game mechanics in order to beat the other player. (I repeat: it's not single player like in TT1, whether we agree with it or not) However, expansion is not necessary to 'winning' the game, since there are multiple goals and multiple ways of achieving them.

To put another point: once you have the mission, you can create alliances (well, once they release that game mechanic anyway) and you don't need large expansions because you can build a grand empire just by interacting with other players. On the other hand, if you're interested in battling others then you don't need a larger piece of the world map, just lots of resources to have a military. All you need is a good, defended home town. If you're interested in playing by yourself, you don't need the bigger piece because you can complete quests anyway: as with the Hideout, you don't need to own that location in order to visit it. You don't need a huge empire to complete research, find or make new things.

Again: those cells are not 'yours', they're 'public' and it's a matter of first come, first served. TT2 does not have some sort of allocation to the world map as if you were alone. You may dislike that notion, if so, I suggest taking it up with Enkord in the single-player thread.

The second issue is the one about being able to expand in any direction. That's better left for Berserker, but I expect that has something to do with programming. It's probably easier for them to program "expand in all directions" than "player 1 is here, you are here, player 5 is here, and player 10 is over there. Expand in X direction". And as the others have pointed out, once you have expansion tech researched, all you need to do to expand in X direction is to plant a new town over there. I'm guessing a part of the reason for this mechanic is for strategy purposes. If you simply expanded to one area unoccupied rather than all areas unoccupied, then you lose on some of the strategy of the game and deciding how to expend your resources and where.

Lastly, I would point out that expecting other people to abide by unspoken unwritten rules of how you expect them to play, especially when expansion and other things are actually built into the gameplay, is rather unfair. Some people like me play by expanding. Others like Live and Lover, are busy testing out the military. Some others are just wanting to complete quests. Most of us are figuring out how things work and are specifically testing them because that's the only way Enkord get to find bugs and learn how to please their players. You can't expect people to not use the features that are provided, especially in a testing phase where that's the only way to get the kinks out in a real-world situation. Which brings me back to my initial suggestion that there is a misunderstanding of how the game works and the way it is designed. (Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong in that assumption)

You know what, I'm done with trying. Don't presume to lecture me. Thanks for the explanation. You all can just keep using kutsgut's figures as gospel. I'll keep my worthless numbers and opinions to myself. tnt out

Ok then. Hard to know what the issue is and how to help if you keep it to yourself. I certainly can't correct myself or apologise for mistakes if I'm not told what specifically I've done wrong. If I am wrong, I'm sorry. As for the figures: post them please. Then anyone can compare and contrast and use the ones that are the most accurate. I know I would.

I also would like to see what your figures are. I didn't see you ever post any numbers just that what we have are wrong. We know they are still changing and so would love to be kept up to date with the latest :)