Something about apocalypse and desire to take a break

Totally agree with most of the comments here.

I also feel 150 days is not long enough, especially for 'slower players' I had to choose between gaining a Victory or trying to go up the tech levels (which I cannot finish as I can't build the buildings with all the resourses I need for the Victory) . I have given up with research so just focussing on Wealth Victory now. 

Why is there a time limit?

• As others have stated, I agree with the majority of points, in particular the fact that 150 days is way too short to really enjoy the game, the 30-day rule applying to younger players attacking older players, and the ending as now implemented.
• I too gave up on my hero once the fires started, and the characters were boring and not worth the time to speak with them.
• The way the ending has been conceived is bothering me a lot, given that right now fires are destroying so many people's lives and property IRL and it is truly depressing.  I suggest the devs consider a different way to end the session that is total fantasy like in TTG, such as the Shades coming back and the fog reclaiming space so that it is truly a game where one can escape the events of IRL.
• I've played through many A's and would move on from this game as is if it weren't for my great alliance and other friends that I have made - I am still considering it.

I'm a new player and had NO idea that I was going to killed off in three months when I first started playing. I've invested time and for me a lot of thought into it. An investment of my time, to no end at all. I feel cheated that I wasn't warned at the beginning. I love the game! I don't want to have to start over and over. I've only just reached a stage where I can join an alliance and now one of my towns has a death warrant on it. I think that for most players a warning of this would be useful. I wouldn't have messed about with science if I'd known it was pointless and holding me back. As a very new player it takes time to understand what you should do and how to do it, there's not a lot of help, which is fine, but you do make mistakes and it does take time to recover if you make a mistake. I think that the time limit should either be warned or lengthened. Not everyone can play 6 hours a day. Again I love the game and the puzzles but the last few days I can do nothing but build and build, no time for adventures or discovery. 

150 Days is just too short for this game. Period. No matter what your argument is Bers, 150 days is just flat out too short.

I understand your point that you're not supposed to do everything in one play through and to focus on a single victory... But... You can't do multiple victories anyways since your hero is wiped after you complete one...

But, you can not live in this game by just focusing on culture, for example. You're building and building reaching culture, trying your best to avoid negative culture, etc. Then someone attacks you because they can clearly tell how your towns are built...

You HAVE to focus on defense as well with ANY choice you make in this game.

You have some crazy building requirements as well, most of the buildings you force us to build we do not even need. This also takes away a ton of time, resources, items, etc. That are just pointless and only done to upgrade another building.

Now, how are new players to this game supposed to know that they need to focus solely on ONE victory? And when they do get to a point where they even understand this game, guess what? They find out they're about to be wiped out and have to start everything all over again. And again.... And.... again.....

IMO, This will be the Apocalypse for your own game, as many players will just leave to other games that do not force you to wipe. It just gets boring at a certain point and you start over on your own in those type of games.

And before you ban me again, I did not break rule #1, these are all valid points. Please listen to your players.

I do like the graphic effects on kingdoms close to the apocalypse. Pretty effective on the message that needs to be send. I don’t have it  in my kingdom, yet,  and I do hope it will be even more catastrophic as the end is approaching, say 2 weeks before the end.

I agree 5 months is short. It is enough to reach a victory, yes. And for more active players, who know what they are doing, 5 months is even good enough to be able to choose the victory type. But it is not enough to enjoy the game. At this point, it seems like a rush to reach a victory (like it or not). And, although victory should the be point of any game, rushing to it should not.

I don’t think changing the time to 6 months can hurt anyone. Faster and eager to start new heros kind of players can still do it before the 6 months. Others can have more time to enjoy what they have created.

I think it's too soon, also when we were ending an alpha there was always a bonus (Keep E cash or speed-ups) I must admit this made me donate and buy loads of speed ups cos i knew they were there for the next launch. As I still have a day to go I don't no if this is the plan but it will be very disappointing if we are just boom gone start over

• The way the ending has been conceived is bothering me a lot, given that right now fires are destroying so many people's lives and property IRL and it is truly depressing.  I suggest the devs consider a different way to end the session that is total fantasy like in TTG, such as the Shades coming back and the fog reclaiming space so that it is truly a game where one can escape the events of IRL.

I would like to add to this suggestion. It is true that the fires in real life are very depressing and coming into a fantasy game just to be surrounded by them here as well hurts even more.

Bringing Shades into it would be much more fun and interactive if, for example, you could send your army to attack them as they show up. And once you kill 1, 2 pop up, etc. 

And when you defeat one, you get free items that can carry over to your new hero on restart. This would make the end a lot more fun and interactive to all, new and old players to the game i think.

150 Days is just too short for this game. Period. No matter what your argument is Bers, 150 days is just flat out too short.

I understand your point that you're not supposed to do everything in one play through and to focus on a single victory... But... You can't do multiple victories anyways since your hero is wiped after you complete one...

But, you can not live in this game by just focusing on culture, for example. You're building and building reaching culture, trying your best to avoid negative culture, etc. Then someone attacks you because they can clearly tell how your towns are built...

You HAVE to focus on defense as well with ANY choice you make in this game.

You have some crazy building requirements as well, most of the buildings you force us to build we do not even need. This also takes away a ton of time, resources, items, etc. That are just pointless and only done to upgrade another building.

Now, how are new players to this game supposed to know that they need to focus solely on ONE victory? And when they do get to a point where they even understand this game, guess what? They find out they're about to be wiped out and have to start everything all over again. And again.... And.... again.....

IMO, This will be the Apocalypse for your own game, as many players will just leave to other games that do not force you to wipe. It just gets boring at a certain point and you start over on your own in those type of games.

And before you ban me again, I did not break rule #1, these are all valid points. Please listen to your players.

I completely agree with all that you said, it is just common sense.

For me if you are doing  a victory you shouldn't have to be so taken over by it that you cannot do other things.  Heck even being able to get enough time to plunder etc.

yes there have been attacks to some extent but nothing as exciting as before this.

I really can't understand the idea of having to push so hard to achieve a victory that you can't also do other things that are enjoyable, then you want to continue playing.

 I am by no means talking about trying to do everything because yes that is not possible but at least be able to enjoy playing the game without only having to grind on the victories, it gets so boring and tiresome.

It honestly feels as though we are being pressured to pick a victory and stick to it, stay focused on that and nothing else.

I am sure that is not what you intend, that is only my opinion on how it makes me feel, don't know if anyone else feels that way I can only speak for myself.

sorry about the long post.  

My opinion about other posts in this thread:

1. "I don't want a victory with this hero just want to reach info age level 50 hero and complete all the dens, caves and story" abnaxsus    
2. "I just think a hard stop at 150 days for every type of player doesn't work in the long run." Catherine    

Disallow victory after 150 days, but don't destroy hero?

"First hero goes to first continent, second hero to second continent and so forth" Babs 

• Sounds cool, maybe limit alternative heroes to number of play-able continents?

"The fires could be a good idea but please keep them to the final week, and give us something for them, if not goodies, then achievements" Dordiana   

• I agree, achievement for putting out X fires could help.

"How are new players to this game supposed to know that they need to focus solely on ONE victory?" Dbarns

"But 150 days is not enough to enjoy the game." Louie

• The way the ending has been conceived is bothering me a lot, given that right now fires are destroying so many people's lives and property IRL and it is truly depressing.  I suggest the devs consider a different way to end the session that is total fantasy like in TTG, such as the Shades coming back and the fog reclaiming space so that it is truly a game where one can escape the events of IRL.

I would like to add to this suggestion. It is true that the fires in real life are very depressing and coming into a fantasy game just to be surrounded by them here as well hurts even more.

Bringing Shades into it would be much more fun and interactive if, for example, you could send your army to attack them as they show up. And once you kill 1, 2 pop up, etc. 

And when you defeat one, you get free items that can carry over to your new hero on restart. This would make the end a lot more fun and interactive to all, new and old players to the game i think.

I love dbarns idea of fighting an increasing number of shades - and I am a collect! 

I also agree that the whole apocalypse (aka the end phase of a hero/domain) needs to be engaging, fun and more of a positive experience.

My initial impression of how it is now is that is has been rather "slapped on". It feels like an ingame justification for ending a session (as opposed to "we have to wipe in order to implement new stuff" in previous alpha sessions) was needed. When I say slapped on, I mean that it seems rather superficial and generic and not very complex/thought through. For example, the graphic of the map fires is the same everywhere, meaning it's a single, relatively simple graphic that just increases in size and numbers. Feels like a 2 minute job (sorry devs! :) Similar with the fires/crystals in town, as well as the "characters" (I am putting "..." because they are not interesting characters at all) that appear in towns and their monotone dialogs. I don't know if all players feel the same, but I already don't like interacting with "the little people" in other locations, I'd much rather if the main characters (the advisors, Gromus, Mr. Thorn, or even some from the beginning, e.g. Herald, the village keeper, to maybe tie back to the beginning of the session) interacted and lead me through this stage and have a more meaningful storyline/interaction/gameplay experience.

I don't know if this would make it more engaging, but I wondered if there could be several versions of the apocalypse, not just fires, but a whole variety of "catastrophies", e.g. flood, drought, earthquake, comet crash filling atmosphere with dust=no sunlight/oxygen etc. The shades from the original TT also sound like a good idea. I mainly think there should be variety so that a) not everybody is experiencing the exact same scenario, and b) it wouldn't be the same with every new hero. Personally, I already don't like having to do the same old go to Heralds/NK/Opposition Hideout etc. blabla in the beginning because it is always the same (the bit of variety in outcome doesn't do it for me) and feels old/repetitive. While I can somewhat cope with a repetitive beginning in order to open up new things/quests/experiences, I certainly would not want a repetitive/bland ending also, it leads to nothing, or only a negative experience, imo.

When it was first announced that the sessions would be 5 months, I already suggested coming up with a mechanism to potentially prolong the session a little bit. I think those players who would like a bit of additional time should be able to gain it through gameplay. Maybe fighting the apocalypse to buy some more time, or something similar.

I also think that while going through the final phase (last 30 days), there needs to be an experience of "achieving something with the hero/domain" before it goes poof. I know players are supposed to achieve a victory, but I don't think that is enough of a rewarding experience. A couple of comments already mentioned the possibility to fight/interact with the apocalypse more actively and receiving rewards that can be used in the next session. I also wonder if there could be somewhat of a team/alliance effort to interact with it or fight against it.

I want to start by saying that I loved playing the stand alone games and I love this game.  The developers have done an amazing job.

I would love to be able to play without a time limit.  The perfect game for me would be to be able to complete all the research, build the buildings to the max, and be able to complete all the dungeons, etc.  I think this would really be interesting when it comes to wars!  You could still put a age limit so new players would not be attacked but give players who have invested time (and money) the ability to really see who is stronger!

I have donated a lot over the last year but have decided to stop...I have decided that it is a waste of my money when I have a time limit.  I still have not reached a victory and to be honest that is not why I play this game.  I play to grow my kingdom, be a member of a great alliance and see what I am capable of.

While I have many thoughts on this issue, none of them are nice so I will not post them. I do want to talk about one comment I see over and over here about the thirty day rule. Many think if they want to go to someone over thirty days why should they not be able to. I just want to mention how would that be fair? If someone attacks me I want to be able to return the favor, but if I am attacked by someone younger then thirty days I can't? 

So it sounds all well and good to say oh if I am over thirty days younger and I want to go to someone older I should be able to. Just would be very unfair to your victim they could not then return the visit.

So it sounds all well and good to say oh if I am over thirty days younger and I want to go to someone older I should be able to. Just would be very unfair to your victim they could not then return the visit.

The game could be set up so if a younger player attacks someone 30 days older, that breaks the 30 day rule for both.

So it sounds all well and good to say oh if I am over thirty days younger and I want to go to someone older I should be able to. Just would be very unfair to your victim they could not then return the visit.

The game could be set up so if a younger player attacks someone 30 days older, that breaks the 30 day rule for both.

Ok, I admit I was not completely clear, but this is what I meant by my comments regarding the 30 day rule.  Let us decide if we want to war back and forth.  Maybe give us a warning that the rule would be null and void if we proceeded.

I'd like to also contribute something to this thread: I think it's fine that there is a limited amount of time before you need to start over again and experience the game in a different way. However:

1. A game like this has a lot of different type of players who play for different amounts each day. The game description page even explicitly describes the desire to cater to a whole bunch of different playstyles/players (hardcore pvp/story based/researchers). It doesn't make any sense to me that you would group all these people with variable playstyles from 15 minutes to 8 hours a day into one group and give them all the same hard time limit. In my opinion what this game needs is a way to make the apocalypse come on a personal, variable basis, which is based upon in-game progression/time spent and not real-life time, as this is obviously not fair(which is the only reason I think everyone is so against the current system, the wipe in itself is a nice system)

2.There currently isn't enough content/victories implemented for me to actually want to play the game again from scratch. If you force your players to start over you should also give them the opportunity to have new experiences. This was never a problem in the alphas(since each new alpha promised a lot of new stuff) but it is now.

Quest locations are going to be the same, research tree is going to be the same, story is going to be the same. Maybe I'll get some different globals, get some other puzzles and at the last 40 days I'll change playstyle to go for culture instead of wealth victory.(which means I'll still have done 110 days of something very similar to the first time)

This is easily solvable if you just make it so that there is always new stuff to do. Currently all the quest locations are doable in one playthrough but it could just as easily not be. I heard you guys say there are way to many quest locations already but I think it's the opposite, as you shouldn't be able to do them all at once. We should have so many locations that we can't do them all in one playthrough or just force us to do it in multiple ones (For example you could make the player choose between a caves or mines playthrough at the beginning of the game and lock them out of the other one for the rest of that playthrough so that they want to go back and do the other one(NOTE: Please don't do that, I mean if you were thinking of releasing new sort of questline location sets)). Having more acts of the story is also something that's going to help a lot

All in all, I don't plan on returning immediately to the game when I achieve victory on this hero, for the simple fact that I don't feel any incentive to do another go as long as only minor new details are available, and it's not worth the grind in the beginning for me.

I know 1 is not easy to implement fairly, and 2 is asking for a lot, but it's just what I want and what I think this game needs so it's just meant as constructive criticism. You've made a pretty nice game already :)

 Wish list:  increase the goody drops after fighting monsters, increase the amount of exp points from fighting monsters, decrease the amount of settlers required for 3rd + towns, allow heros to trade with their other affiliated heros subject to the same daily restriction amount as trading with an unaffiliated heros, allow heros 30 days younger to attack older heros and invite retribution from that single hero, since we are still testing, continue 6 mos wipes, Devs should work to complete story line, implement all the victories, complete the tech tree and perk tree, then, when the game is completed, you can bring in some mechanism to limit game play. People do not/will not want to have to repeat play areas 5 or more times to achieve different victories.   Most important - Try to keep the game fun to play.  Maybe you need a sandbox area for people that just want to build.